Category Archives: Business

The Story of the Newburyport Turnpike, Rt 1, with Thanks to Gordon Harris

newburyport_turnpike

The Newburyport Turnpike, courtesy of Gordon Harris, originally from Massachusetts Beautiful, by Wallace Nutting, 1923

I’ve discovered a wonderful new (to me) blog, written by Gordon Harris of Ipswich, Massachusetts. The blog is called “Stories from Ipswich.” And I discovered it via Facebook.  Mr Harris has written the story of the Newburyport Turnpike or what we now call Route 1, and how it came to pass.

In 1803 a group of Newburyport investors incorporated as the Newburyport Turnpike Corporation in a commercial venture to build a straight toll road from Boston to Newburyport (the highway we call Rt. 1). The intent was to bypass Salem and promote Newburyport as a commercial destination. Proponents claimed it would cut travel time by a third compared to the old Bay Road (Rt. 1A).”

To read the entire fascinating account/history, please press here.

And many thanks to Gordon Harris for letting me borrow/steal the photo of the Turnpike for this post. To see a large version, please read his blog post.  And if you download the photo, please give Gordon Harris and his blog credit (it is now one of my pet peeves that I find images that have been collected by me, the editor of The Newburyport Blog, for the last 7 years, all over Facebook, without any credit to The Newburyport Blog or the place where the image originated).

Newburyport’s Waterfront, Resolved in my Lifetime?

I asked a friend of mine, who not only knows about such matters, but is also “wise” (a much overlooked character trait these days), about why, when the  history of the NRA (Newburyport Redevelopment Authority) land had been massively built on (lots of photos and maps to prove it), did the residents of Newburyport, no matter how long they had lived here, short time, long time, in-between time, seem so passionate about having it stay as an open waterfront.

Disclosure, I am one of the only people I know who likes, and will admit to liking, the proposal by the NRA and Union Studios for Newburyport’s Waterfront.  I was born and raised in Manhattan, NYC, I like tall buildings, I like tall buildings that lead to the mouth of large rivers (the Hudson River for example). As far as I can tell, when talking to people, I am in a minority of one.

What my very wise friend said, was that when buildings get demolished, people get very attached to the open space. Boston’s Greenway was given as an example.

And the residents of Newburyport are very attached to the wide open space called “The Waterfront” along the mighty Merrimac River in Newburyport, MA. When I would walk and talk to folks, what I heard from all sorts of folks is that they would rather have it just the way it is than have anything built on it at all. This is from folks who have lived here, a short time, a long time, an in-between time.

And this past 2013 election has been, in my mind, about a whole bunch of things. But I think it might well be the final “swan song” for anything ever being built on that land. Yes, maybe “it,” the Waterfront, has been resolved in my life time.  “Leave it open.” But, how to pay for it and maintain it, that has always been the question. And hopefully my “wise” friend might have some thoughts on that challenge, that puzzle, that head-scratcher, that perplexing conundrum.

Newburyport 2013 Election Results

Mayor
Donna Holaday (incumbent)
Richard Sullivan Jr.

Winner:
Donna Holaday

Councilor At-Large
(5 Councilors At-Large)
Laurel Allgrove
Edward Cameron (incumbent)
Barry Connell (incumbent)
Ari Herzog (incumbent)
Meghan Kinsey
Lyndi Lanphear
Bruce Menin
Sheila Mullins
Bruce Vogel

Winners:
Edward Cameron
Barry Connell
Ari Herzog
Meghan Kinsey
Bruce Vogel

Ward 1 Councilor:
Michael Ferrick
Allison Heartquist (incumbent)

Winner:
Allison Heartquist

Ward 2 Councilor:
Jared Eigerman
Christopher Welch

Winner:
Jared Eigerman

Ward 3 Councilor:
Robert Cronin (incumbent)
Leslie Eckholdt

Winner:
Robert Cronin

Ward 4 Councilor:
Tom Jones (incumbent)
Charles Tontar

Winner:
Charles Tontar

Ward 5 Councilor:
Larry Giunta Jr.
Sean Reardon

Winner:
Larry Giunta Jr.

School Committee
(3 School Committee members)
Steven Cole (incumbent)
Daniel Koen (incumbent)
Michael Luekens
Raymond Matthews
Cheryl Sweeney (incumbent)

Winners:
Steven Cole
Michael Luekens
Cheryl Sweeney

Election Results 2013, press image to enlarge

Election Results Mayor and City Council 2013, press image to enlarge

Election results  for Mayor and City Council

Election 2013, School Committee (press image to enlarge)

Election 2013, School Committee (press image to enlarge)

Election results for School Committee

Congratulations to all who ran and to all who won.

Official numbers in for the top 5 Newburyport City Council At Large race (slightly different than last nights numbers, the winners are still the same).

Updated total:

Ed Cameron 2947
Barry Connell 2944
Ari Herzon 2893
Megan Kinsey 2856
Bruce Vogel 2526

Final results for Newburyport City Council At Large (press image to enlarge)

Final results for Newburyport City Council At Large (press image to enlarge)

Final total for Newburyport City Council At Large (last night’s results were “unofficial”).

Where to Vote Tuesday, November 5th 2013

Where to vote

Where to vote

There is  a very cool tool to find out where to vote in Newburyport, this Tuesday, November 5, 2013.

You just enter your street number, the street’s name, and your city or town, or your zip code, and voila, it tells you exactly where to go (it even tells you which ward you are in, and how to get in touch with the City Clerk). It can be found here.

The people of Newburyport will be voting for a Mayor (a 4 year term, not a 2 year term), for 5 Newburyport City Council At-Large candidates, Newburyport City Council candidates in Wards 1, 2, 3, 4 & 5, and 3 Newburyport School Committee members.

Voting hours are 7am to 8pm.

Be sure to vote.

I will most likely go down to City Hall at 8pm, and will post the election results on the Newburyport Blog and the Newburyport Blog’s Facebook page.

Here is a sample ballot for the Newburyport At-Large Candidates.

Newburyport At-Large Ballot

Newburyport At-Large Ballot

Newburyport Election 2013, Mayoral and Council Debates

On Tuesday November 5th, the residents of Newburyport will go to the polls to elect a Mayor (for a 4 year term, not a 2 year term), 5 Newburyport City Councilors At-Large, 5 Ward Councilors and 3 members of the School Committee.

Here are links to the Mayoral Debate between Mayor Donna Holaday and City Councilor Dick Sullivan on October 22, 2013 and the Newburyport City Council At-Large Debate on October 16, 2013.

The Mayoral Debate

The Mayoral Debate

The Mayoral Debate between Mayor Donna Holaday and City Councilor Dick Sullivan on October 22, 2013 can be watched here.

The Newburyport City Council At-Large Debate

The Newburyport City Council At-Large Debate

The Newburyport City Council At-Large Debate on October 16, 2013 can be seen here.

Not Qualified to be Mayor

As I recall, in the 2001 election, people voted for Al Lavender, as a reaction against Mayor Lisa Mead (not a “for” Al Lavender vote). I thought Lisa Mead was an incredibly competent mayor. And I feel that we are still recovering from the consequences of two years of Al Lavender’s tenure in the corner office (we are still cleaning up the landfill, which has caused untold misery–something that came out of Al Lavender’s two year term).

I would like a smart, well educated (more than a high school education), competent person, who can deal with an array of complex issues, in the corner office for the next four years, someone with a lot of executive experience (this is one complicated city to run) (a retired firefighter and a Home Depot greeter does not do it for me).

I think firefighters are incredible people, unbelievably brave, but with a skill set that, in my mind, does not translate into dealing with the incredibly complex issues that the Mayor of Newburyport deals with.

I would surely like to see the electorate vote with their intelligence, instead of reacting emotionally, and to see this not just as a one issue election (i.e. the Waterfront).

And I also think, given his resume, that if Dick Sullivan didn’t have the last name “Sullivan,” no one would take his candidacy seriously for being the CEO of this complicated city.

Comparison of the NRA Waterfront Plans

A comparison of the NRA Waterfront plans.

First Draft – September 2012, Second Draft – June 2013.

A comparison of the NRA Waterfront plans. (Press image to enlarge.)

A comparison of the NRA Waterfront plans. (Press image to enlarge.)

Citizens for an Open Waterfront’s (COW) alternative plan – April 2013 (flipped vertically so that it is easier to compare to the proposed NRA plan).

Citizen's for an Open Waterfront's (COW) alternative plan

Citizens for an Open Waterfront's (COW) alternative plan

Please Leave My Plastic Bags Alone

There is stuff afoot that would have our Newburyport City Government pass legislation banning plastic bags.  I’m not for this.

Yesterday I emailed the Mayor and the Newburyport City Councilors.  The email was pretty simple:

“Dear Mayor Holaday and Newburyport City Councilors,

Please leave my plastic bags alone.  I recycle and reuse faithfully. (And I fully understand the arguments for this anti-platic bag piece of potential legislation.)  (I also don’t like being lectured to, in places like the supermarket, by folks who feel differently than I do.)”

I also sent in the questionnaire, basically about how I would like legislation passed banning plastic bags, that came with the recent recycling information.  Since there was nothing about recycling and reusing plastic bags, I crossed the entire questionnaire out with a big  X and wrote, “Please leave my plastic bags alone.”  I think I also wrote something about being displeased about being lectured to at the supermarket.

So far I’ve been polite when being lectured to at the supermarket, because I think, “Is it worth alienating this acquaintance who I like very much?”  But since they are alienating moi, next time, I may very well lose it.

And I thought I was alone in my dislike of this potential piece of legislation, but apparently not so.  I’ve been surprised how many folks feel the same way I do. So if you are one of those folks, and are feeling energetic, you can find the information on the City of Newburyport’s website on how to contact the Mayor and the Newburyport City Council.

The City’s website is here.http://www.cityofnewburyport.com/

Email information for the City Councilors is here:http://www.cityofnewburyport.com/Clerk/WEB/pages/city_council.html

The information on how to contact the Mayor is here: http://www.cityofnewburyport.com/mayor.html

Recycling plastic bags

Recycling plastic bags

Now that I’ve written this, I may now get lectured to on the street.  I hope not.  And for those who may feel tempted, education, yes, lecture – no, and even require information on the plastic bags themselves about not letting them float away into the environment, but recycle and reuse.

The container to recycle plastic bags can be found at your grocery store.

Patina, Newburyport and the Soul of the City

Definition of Patina:

“A surface appearance of something grown beautiful especially with age or use.” Merriam-Webster

If you ever watch anything on TV that has to do with old stuff, from the tonier PBS “Antiques Road Show,” to the newer “Pawn Stars” on the History Channel, something old would be brought in, and if it has been refinished, and the original finish has been removed, whether it’s an old gun, a coin or an old piece of furniture, the value of that piece, whatever it might be, would be greatly, greatly diminished.

Same thing with small historic seacoast New England cities, i.e. Newburyport.

When I moved her over 30 years ago, Newburyport had a whole lot of soul and patina. I loved walking down the street and feel the stories behind the homes that I would walk past.

Lately, I’ve heard people use the word “slummy,” even for existing parts of Newburyport.  Yes, really – “slummy.”

Slummy seems to be the new word for anything that hasn’t been torn down, or torn apart and is looking shiny and new.

What I would call “patina” in Newburyport, is now being rebranded as “slummy.”

An historic home, one that is 75 years old, or in Newburyport’s case much, much older, that has been lovingly restored, retains its soul, its patina.  An historic property in Newburyport that has been torn down, or ripped apart so that almost nothing exists, that property, has not only lost its patina, its soul is gone as well, and in my mind, no offense or anything, so has its value, in this particular place, Newburyport, Massachusetts.

A home that has been decimated here and there in Newburyport, Newburyport’s soul and patina still exists.  Keep adding to those homes that have been decimated and the soul of the city gradually disappears, and nope, it cannot be regained.

There are many keepers of the Newburyport’s soul in this city.  And one of those entities that are entrusted with its soul is our Historical Commission (not the Historical Society, two completely different entities).

And back, quite a while ago, when things were really beginning to be decimated, the city, the Historical Commission and the Newburyport City Council, put Newburyport’s Demo Delay in place.  It was a way to get people to stop for a little while, have a discussion about their small piece of the soul of the city.  And the Historical Commission could enact a time period, at the moment it is one year, to delay demolition, and to explore options, and hopefully retain that part of the city’s soul. Or not, the owner or developer could tear down the structure at the end of the demo delay, if they chose to, and at that time the city’s building inspector would issue the appropriate permits.

What is so destructive about the new Demo Delay Ordinance proposed by City Councilor Bob Cronin, and co-sponsored by City Councilor Dick Sullivan, who is also running for mayor, is that the ordinance focuses on structural choices, giving the building inspector say over what gets demolished, and what does not.  The proposed ordinance does not focus on the soul of the city.  And that soul, that patina, is why so many of us come to Newburyport to live, visit, work and play.

Bushee Estate Demolished for a Subdivision

The Bushee estate on Newman Road has been demolished for a subdivision.  That’s a “Yikes.”

The home that carried her ( Florence E. Bushee) name boasted a twin chimney 2 1/2-story colonial with 13 rooms and eight open fireplaces, ornamental gardens, a carriage house, a post and beam cow barn and multi-stall horse barn.”  Newburyport Daily News, January 25, 2102

The entire article can be read here (it’s worth reading!!).

Newburyport Carpetbaggers, the 95%

Carpetbagger

Carpetbagger

One Newburyport City Councilor (Dick Sullivan) got up in the Newburyport City Council chambers and lamented that all these “newcomers” were coming in and telling the folks who were born and raised here what to do.

Another Newburyport City Councilor (Tom Jones) got up (Thursday night) and said how Newburyport was a working class town, and seemed to intimate that it was still a working class town.  No it’s not. In the year 2012, Newburyport is an upper-middle class city, quickly approaching a upper class enclave – especially when Mr. Karp starts building.

Honey, it ain’t your father’s Newburyport anymore.

If you haven’t noticed the carpetbagger thing has really, really gotten out of hand lately.  You don’t just have the carpetbaggers who came in the first wave, in the mid to late 1970’s and very early 1980’s,  right after Urban Renewal renewed.  There was a wave in the late 1990’s after the MBTA came back to town. Remember that, a big housing spike when a lot of the old timers cashed in.  I remember folks saying  that it was a joke that anyone would want to live in Newburyport’s South End. There was a lot of bitterness about how high the taxes had gotten because of the housing boom, but that money bought more house not so far away, in a place where there weren’t so many doctors, lawyers and financial folks. Where the working class folks felt more comfortable.

And then the super duper influx around 2005, when Mr. Karp bought so much land and real-estate downtown.  Yup, and people have just kept coming, with more and more money, lots more money.  And the old-timers, the natives, they pay attention and they vote, but their numbers just ain’t what they used to be.  It’s not your father’s Newburyport by any stretch of the imagination, no how, no way, any more.

What Newburyport Used to Look Like, “A Measure of Change”

Link to "A Measure of Change"

Link to “A Measure of Change” 

This video is worth posting again, and if you haven’t seen it take a look, or if you have seen it, it’s pretty amazing and might be worth a gander again.

It’s about what Newburyport used to look like not so long ago in the late 1960’s and early 1970’s. It’s not the gorgeous downtown we all know and love now.  And downtown Newburyport no longer has any protection (it ended in 2005).  The Newburyport City Council has a fantastic opportunity now to put protection of downtown Newburyport back in place.  It would be a noble and intelligent thing to do.

The film “A Measure of Change” was made in 1975 by Lawrence Rosenblum on what the city looked like before Urban Renewal.  A link to the video which is now online can be found here.

A Really Good Compromise on Newburyport’s LHD

This sounds like a really good compromise on Newburyport’s Local Historic District (LHD) sponsored on Monday night by Newburyport City Councilors Katy Ives and Bob Cronin. Excellent work!!  I hope it is one that the Newburyport City Councilors see as a “win-win” alternative.

The proposals address what Councilor Ives called the “most egregious” situations affecting our historic assets in the city of Newburyport, i.e. demolition, as well as protecting downtown Newburyport, the restoration of which is responsible for the revitalization of a once dying city.

A very well written article in the Newburyport Daily News about the the proposals sponsored by Councilors Katy Ives and Bob Cronin can be read here.

When Newburyport Looked Like a Slum

Newburyport 1967, courtesy of the Archival Center at the Newburyport Public Library (press image to enlarge)

Newburyport 1967, courtesy of the Archival Center at the Newburyport Public Library (press image to enlarge)

I was telling a business owner this week that Newburyport didn’t always look the way it looks now.  The business owner commutes from just outside Boston, and has had their business in Newburyport for over 10 years.  It was a complete shock to them that this now gorgeous place was literally in “shambles,” a slum in 1967.

The Archival Center at the Newburyport Public Library graciously let me take photos of their archives of Newburyport from 1967-1974, HUD, NRA and Urban Renewal.  A link to the 54 photographs that I took from the Newburyport Archival Center can be found here.

(If you download the image would you please give The Archival Center at The Newburyport Public Library and The Newburyport Blog credit.  Thank you.)

Kathleen O’Connor Ives, WINS State Senate for the First Essex District in Massachusetts

Kathleen O’Connor Ives, WINS the seat for State Senate for the First Essex District in Massachusetts.

Updates to come.

kathleenoconnorives

Kathleen O'Connor Ives State Senator

The Newburyport Daily News reporting that Katy has sizable wins in Methuen, Newburyport, North Andover, and Haverhill.

Newburyport unofficial numbers:
Ives 7210
Toomey 2281
Kelcourse 377
Magliochetti 460
______________________________

UPDATE  Friday, November 7, 2012:

Kathleen O’Connor Ives: Dem – 36,175 /46%
Shaun Toohey: GOP – 26,483  /34%
Paul Magliochetti: Ind – 12,764 /16%
James Kelcourse: Unr  – 3,340 /4%

Town by Town results (press image to enlarge)

Town by Town results (press image to enlarge)

Town by Town results (press image to enlarge)

(Updated numbers courtesy of The Boston Globe)

Kathleen O'Connor Ives Wins

Kathleen O'Connor Ives Wins

(Photo courtesy of Kathleen O’Connor Ives for State Senate)

Celebrating Kathleen O’Connor Ives’ win, State Representative Michael Costello hugging Kathleen, as Campaign Manager Hailey Klein and Katy’s husband Jeff Ives look on.

Newburyport, Inn Street, 1974

Inn Street, 1974 (press image to enlarge)

Inn Street, 1974 (press image to enlarge)

Inn Street, downtown Newburyport, 1974 (press image to enlarge)
Courtesy of the Archives at the Newburyport Public Library.

(If you download the image would you please give The Archival Center at The Newburyport Public Library and The Newburyport Blog credit.  Thank you.)

Newburyport LHD Political Reality

I am now going to piss off Newburyport preservationists!  Ooops!

The final report of the Newburyport LHD Study Committee (LHD = Local Historic District) is absurdly fair.  The five members did backflips to accommodate feedback from the community and from the Newburyport City Councilors. Backflips, cartwheels, you name it, right from the get go. And despite all of that, on an up and down vote it’s not going to fly. That’s just the existing political reality.

The leading member of the “Say No to LHD” group, its heart and soul, who got up in the first informational meeting a year a go, disrupting the entire meeting and storming out, vowing to stop the LHD, has done a remarkable job. It’s definitely a “Wow.” It appears that the end most certainly justified the means. Trashing people’s reputations and character, personal attacks, threats of law suits (most recently in a comment in the Daily News), presenting information early last winter (good tactic starting early) that was and is simply not true, has worked. Congratulations.

The final version of the LHD ordinance has finally gone to the Newburyport City Council, a meeting will take place this Thursday, October 25, 2012, Newburyport City Hall at 7PM.

As I see it, the political realities. (The boundaries of the proposed LHD are High Street, the gateway to the city, and downtown Newburyport from Winter Street to Federal Street.)  Lob off the North End of High Street at the Kelly School, and put those folks out of their misery.

There is unanimous support along the South End of the “Ridge” to Willis Lane (which is roughly across the street from Fruit Street).  Shorten High Street from Willis Lane to the Kelly School, maybe include St Paul’s Church on the other side (but, good grief, don’t cross the street!).

And protect downtown Newburyport.  After all that HUD Federal money, please, does anyone dispute that the restoration of downtown Newburyport is the reason that Newburyport has become the thriving place that it is today?  Really, not to protect downtown, good grief.

When Governor Deval Patrick came for a visit at Cafe Di Siena (February 2010), I asked Newburyport City Councilor Tom O’Brien if he would vote for the Newburyport LHD, and his response (this was before all of the hullabaloo), “Of course Mary, there’s been too many tear downs.”  This statement was witnessed by Newburyport City Councilor Barry Connell, who with a wink and a smile by both Newburyport city councilors, pretended to write down this vote for the LHD by Councilor Tom O’Brien on the back of his hand.

So why not have have a “No Demolition” zone/overlay for the entire Newburyport Historic District, that would also include “interior demolition for exploratory purposes,” which, for example, lead to the unfortunate creation by a developer on Pine Street, for which the neighbors are suing the developer and the Newburyport Zoning Board of Appeals.

Can the Newburyport City Council come up with the equivalent of the “Wisdom of Solomon?”  Can they do it in one night?? And what will they say, now that they get the chance have to have a say.  It will be really fascinating to watch.

Newburyport Redevelopment Authority, the NRA’s New Plan

A friend and I were talking yesterday, and they asked me what did I think of the new NRA’s proposal for Newburyport’s waterfront.

And I said, “I don’t know.”

And they said, “I don’t know.”

We’ve both lived in Newburyport for over 30 years and watched the ongoing NRA waterfront saga.

We both agreed that for the “Citizens for an Open Waterfront” (COWs as they have often been referred to over the many, many decades that this has gone on) having an open waterfront is a religion.  And there are many, many folks in town that I know, like and respect very much, that feel fervently that nothing ever should be built on that piece of property.

Mayor Holaday was elected some 3 years ago over James Shanley in part because she was for an “Open Waterfront.”  She won, and I thought at the time, Ok we can finally get on with that idea.

But the “new” idea proposed by then candidate James Shanley (now chair of the NRA, appointed by governor Deval Partrick), of having limited building on the NRA parcel to pay for the open space has gained, yup, traction.

I got out the old photo I have courtesy of the Historical Society of Old Newbury, or as it’s known in Newburyport as “The HIST,” of the NRA lots, c 1920, way before Newburyport’s Urban Renewal took place (click image below to enlarge), and there is no open space at all in what once existed before the bulldozers came in the late 1960s.

NRA land c. 1920, courtesy of the Historical Society of Old Newbury, press to enlarge.

NRA land c. 1920, courtesy of the Historical Society of Old Newbury, press image to enlarge.

And my friend and I compared it to the new proposal by the NRA (click image below to enlarge), and we both agreed that there was a fair amount of open space, and that it looked reasonable.

NRA plans, 2012, courtesy of the NRA, press image to enlarge.

NRA plans, 2012, courtesy of the NRA, press image to enlarge.

NRA plans, 2012, courtesy of the NRA, press image to enlarge.

NRA site plan, aerial view, courtesy of the NRA. Press image to enlarge.

NRA site plan, aerial view, courtesy of the NRA. Press image to enlarge.

NRA site plan, aerial view, courtesy of the NRA, press image to enlarge.

I guess the question now is, “What is considered open space on Newburyport’s waterfront’s NRA lots?”  Lots and lots of open space, or open space, but less open space, with a plan to pay for it (and a park would be wicked expensive).

And for me, will this NRA saga finally be resolved, which I would like a lot, or will it never be resolved in my lifetime, and continue to be a Newburyport political third rail? Hang on to your hats, we’ll find out.

A couple of more images, courtesy of the NRA, for clarification:

NRA lots, aerial view, courtesy of the NRA, press image to enlarge

NRA lots, aerial view, courtesy of the NRA, press image to enlarge

An aerial view of the NRA lots as they are today, courtesy of the NRA. Press image to enlarge.

Boundaries of the NRA land, courtesy of the NRA. Press image to enlarge.

Boundaries of the NRA land, courtesy of the NRA. Press image to enlarge.

Delineation of the property boundaries, of the NRA, the Waterfront Trust and the Ways to the Water as well as an approximate low water mark.  Courtesy of the NRA, press image to enlarge.

To see the entire presentation of the new plans for the NRA lots, given at the Firehouse on September 12, 2012, press here (takes a while to load).

Kathleen O’Connor Ives’, Katy Ives’ Win – the Numbers

Here is Kathleen O’Connor Ives’,  Katy Ives’ win for the Democratic primary election for Massachusetts State Senator for the First Essex District by the numbers:

Newburyport
Coco 212
Ives 1701
Manzi 125

Amesbury
Coco 163
Ives 552
Manzi 86

Salisbury
Coco 90
Ives 225
Manzi 87

Merrimac
Coco 90
Ives 146
Manzi 51

Haverhill
Coco 1734
Ives 511
Manzi 697

North Andover
Coco 391
Ives 382
Manzi 305

Methuen
Coco 730
Ives 511
Manzi 1855